Posts by Jonathan Drake

11

"Why are we supposed to be happy when people are killed?" From a 10 year old

by stuckinarut2 in

i was really overjoyed to hear a 10 year old in the hall say this the other day.

she was sitting behind us and whispered to her mum during the meeting:.

"so mummy, why are we supposed to be happy when jehovah kills people, including my friends at school?

Jonathan Drake

Good kid.

20

A random HISTORY of that old rugged cross used by JW's until 1931

by TerryWalstrom in

corinthians 1:18, holman christian standard bible "for to those who are perishing the message of the cross is foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is gods power.

an austrian radiologist, hermann moedder, experimented with medical students in the 40's, hanging them by their wrists with their hands directly above their heads (much like the watchtower pictures jesus on a stake).

in a few minutes, the students became pale, their lung capacity dropped from 5.2 to 1.5 liters, blood pressure decreased and the pulse rate increased.

Jonathan Drake

This is great. Jws hate the cross, but it's absolutely undeniable he would have died on a cross. there were different kinds of crucifixions performed. But whenever the Romans had a place of execution (I.e., the "skull place") the stakes were permanently affixed to the ground. So that being a historical fact, what part did Jesus carry? Hmmmm

also how heavy would that stake have to be? I've thought about that before and they probably used a long tall log. Long enough to hang the human body high off the ground and strong enough not to break. No way he carried his actual stake. Cross beam? Sure. Stake, no way.

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

Jonathan Drake

What is the distinction and where is the difference in a genetically influenced religious person and a non-genetically influenced humanist?

Thsts a good question, hopefully the book will cover such things. Without reading I would guess:

id say there is no distinction, but that the difference is where a persons genetics influences them to be religious they have the ability to use reason and experience to choose otherwise. Same with the humanist.

so the outcome is the same, but the difference is the means the end was accomplished - either with reason over inherent influence or inherent influence over reason.

As as to the rest of your post, personally I don't see a difference no.

15

Why is Paradise Earth to be taken literally?

by I_love_Jeff in

why do the jehovah's witnesses feel that paradise earth is a literal place?.

i posted this question in yahoo answers if anyone is interested: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150125163818aatmbtr.

why believe poetic promised land prophecy is to be taken literally, but scriptures saying the earth will end must be taken figuratively?

Jonathan Drake

The point made in the rebuttal about revelation is very powerful. After everything is said and done gods tent is shown to be with mankind. Mankind doesn't live in heaven it lives on earth. All through revelation there distinctions drawn between the things in heaven and the things on earth.

According to to the bible story, before gods purpose was corrupted he had created man on earth with the purpose to fill it and subdue it. that is our place. Since the entire thing is about reconciling creation to its original purpose, ours would be to fill the earth and subdue it.

But I would also point out that the real point, according to Jesus, is to focus on being loving toward all and showing faith hope and love. So it kind of misses the mark to be distracted arguing about what will happen in the future instead of focusing on the kind of people we are - this I would submit, is exactly why religion is a farce.

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

Jonathan Drake

I strongly recommend "Nature Via Nurture" by Matt Ridley

I've seen you post this a few times and I'm planning on buying it right after I finish the one I'm on now. As well as one by bill nye about evolution:

http://www.amazon.com/Undeniable-Evolution-Creation-Bill-Nye-ebook/dp/B00LDQPM94

I look forward to both.

49

Jehovah's Witnesses requesting financial transparency in Spain

by JHK in

two jehovah's witnesses requesting financial transparency in spain branch.

one picture in the assembly hall and another on the bridge.. .

http://johnhenrykurtz.blogspot.com.es/2015/01/transparencia-financiera-llegara-antes.html.

Jonathan Drake

Besides that every congregation is transparent

So the financial report thoroughly explained to you how much of your donated money was used to pay the recent losses in court due to moleststion cases involving elders and ministerial servants?

when they send out a letter, or a report in a yearbook, or in anyway whatsoever explain how some of the rank and files donations were used to pay of this trash then I'll say they are transparent.

21

Mormon 'support' for gays, pressure on the WTS?

by Simon in

the mormon / lds church has noticably changed it's stance toward homosexuality and instead of condemning it seems to be supporting protection for people's rights (of course they want to throw some protection for themselves in there as well).. how will this affect the wts?

the lds is the more-successful counterpart to the wts, similar age and history and same non-mainstream appeal.. i have no doubt that the lds church is only changing because they know which way the wind is blowing and society has completely changes it's attitudes towards gay people.

maybe they just want to stay ahead pf the curve before federal legislation enforces people's rights.. now, can we see the wts changing their views" will they be one of the last holdouts?

Jonathan Drake

I'm not too sure if the Untied Nations has the power to enforce churches to do much in changing their non-compliance toward open acceptance of gay rights, such as enforcing the marring within the churches.

Accordin to the report, so far as I recall they only expect them to teach the rights of gay people and a contraceptive. I'm not sure they necessarily expect them to perform the marriages. Also, I agree with you, the UN doesn't really have any teeth. So the deadline given of 2017 seems strange, you know? I'm wondering what exactly they are going to do, if anything.

This may just be my opinion, but gay rights and religious freedom can't coexist. I feel this way because the primary religions of the world rely on sacred books that are thousands of years old and cannot be changed. These books condemn homosexuality. Thus the religions preach against homosexuality as immoral. It's fundamental in the foundation of their faith. If religious freedom exists then we have groups that become, essentially, hate groups inculcating intolerance.

i just don't see how they can coexist. I expect religion to be forced into a minority like groups such as the KKK. Except much worse, since these groups will view it as persecution and that will just fuel the fire.

17

WT were correct about snakes with legs all along!!

by Splash in

.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/6187320/snake-with-foot-found-in-china.html.

what does this tells us about evolution?.

Jonathan Drake

Of course if a snake (an adapted lizard?) did have legs then would it really prove the bible myth? Doesn't it prove evolution just as much or do people believe god chose to give that particular snake one deformed leg?

It would prove evolution. There is absolutely no real reason for the bible myth, the myth isn't even based on anything the bible says really. It's PESHER to take from one of Terry's threads.

now if this snake opened its mouth and said, "bitch stop hitting me with that shoe!" I'd say it proved something....

17

WT were correct about snakes with legs all along!!

by Splash in

.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/6187320/snake-with-foot-found-in-china.html.

what does this tells us about evolution?.

Jonathan Drake

Either this is a hoax, or we are on the cusp of an evolutionary leap, which according to my research so far always required the catalyst of a massive extinction event... Hopefully we can watch it happen without dying.

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

Jonathan Drake

Religiosity is strongly influenced

This is the key part being passed over. It's influenced not decided for you. Personally, I'm still not thrilled with that but I'm not going to just say Cofty must be wrong. If, as with many of us, we are all posting here as former or current associates with JWs then it must be conceded where science is concerned we are woefully ignorant. We need to take such subjects objectively and be willing to examine them instead of resort to our brainwashed response of dismissal.